The Debaters

00:00 If you're listening to this, I already know you have great taste in podcasts. But maybe, if you're like me, you still wonder if you're missing out on the best stuff. That's where the Sounds Good newsletter can help you out. Every other Thursday, the audiophiles at CBC Podcasts highlight one must-hear show and lots of other new and noteworthy titles. They do conversation starters, they do hidden gems, and they also tell you about the stuff they love that they didn't make. Go to cbc.ca slash soundsgood to subscribe. 00:31 This is a CBC Podcast. 00:39 Hey Canada, our comedy always hits the mark. From Ottawa, Ontario, technically the workplace of Prime Minister Mark Carney, it's The Debaters! 00:51 The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who always gets our vote, Steve. 01:04 Hey! Thanks, Graham! Hello, Canada, and welcome back to The Debaters. It is always great to be back in Ottawa, a city that shatters records. 01:18 Listen to that excitement, Canada. 01:22 In September of 2025, a man named Hellcat Jafar set the world record for steps on a Stairmaster. 01:33 Hellcat completed 111,285 steps in 24 hours. Way to give those steps hell, Hellcat! 01:44 Yeah. 01:46 And a special shout-out to whomever was waiting to get on that Stairmaster next, who's probably now known as the Glaremaster. 01:56 Time now to meet two debaters who were inclined to like. 02:00 This comedian wondered why his car got vandalized but could find no automotive. 02:07 It's Ottawa's own John Steinberg! John Steinberg coming out to the stage, taking his place at the podium to my left. Hey, Steve. Hey, buddy. 02:20 And this comic always proves that girls' car wanna have fun. It's Because News' Jan Carwana! Hi, Jan! 02:30 Welcome back. 02:31 Thank you. So nice to be here. Hello, Ottawa. 02:36 Jan getting her place behind the podium to my right. Debaters, your topic is one that we think will prove to be illuminating. 02:45 Candles. 02:48 Do they deserve more appreciation? 02:52 You know who appreciates candles? 02:55 Sandalwood. 02:58 Sandalwoods in every candle, yet I've never smelled it in nature. 03:04 These days, candle makers go out of their way to appeal to men by creating hitherto unheard-of fragrance combinations, like tobacco and horse sweat. 03:15 Or leaky leather and lawn clippings. 03:18 Or how about an old stinky flip-flop and a two-by-four? 03:23 You know, sandalwood. 03:31 Time now for a debate that we think will wax poetic. So, whereas they can be a source of light, provide a fragrant scent, and even have cultural and historical significance, be it resolved that candles deserve more appreciation. John, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, John Steinberg. 03:57 In all my time on this earth, I've seen a lot of popular technologies fall into the pit of nostalgic irrelevance. 04:07 DVDs, videotapes, CD players, fax machines, and of course, the radio. 04:26 Yeah, remember the radio? 04:30 But candles, candles are here forever. 04:39 I'm not talking about individual candles. 04:43 Those are gone in a few hours. 04:52 I'm talking about candles as a whole. Yeah, they're more popular than ever. 04:59 I remember when I was a young child. 05:03 One day, my father came home with a shiny new gadget I'd never seen before. 05:09 He explained to me that it was called a light bulb. 05:19 You see, he'd just come back from the World's Fair. 05:31 where he met a young upstart by the name of Thomas Edison. 05:39 Yeah, Thomas, or Thomas Tommy Gun Edison, as he was known at the time, despite the fact that Tommy Gun wouldn't be invented till years later. 05:51 That's how dangerous and ahead of his time he was. 05:56 But my father told us that this new device is going to be the end of candles. 06:05 And I knew that wasn't true. 06:08 Partly because we didn't have a lamp. 06:21 Yeah, Tommy Gunn had failed to explain that you need one of those. 06:29 But I also knew it wouldn't be the end of candles, because I'd seen all this before, when I was an even younger child. 06:39 And my father came home with something called a whale oil lamp. 06:48 And he told us that this would be the end of candles. 06:57 Now I can sense you guys are wondering, what exactly is this guy's point? 07:11 And is he okay? 07:20 And also, how old is he supposed to be? 07:28 Well, the answer to all those questions is yes. 07:34 Thank you. 07:40 John Steinberg, ladies and gentlemen, arguing that candles deserve more appreciation than we're currently giving them. And as usual, John, an argument that no one else could give. 07:58 Thank you, John. Now, here to throw some serious shade on John's candle appreciation, let's hear from Jan Caruana. 08:09 Thank you. Thanks, Steve. 08:11 Candles stink. 08:14 Literally. 08:16 Even unscented candles give off the waxy pong of Latin masses and unfulfilled wishes. 08:24 How many birthday cakes have been ruined because Tyler just had to blow out his candles? 08:31 Oh, don't say it out loud or your wish won't come true. Here's a wish. I wish my cake wasn't covered in Tyler's spit. 08:46 When cave people discovered fire, did they grunt, ugh, fire good, fire warm, but fire better if smell like pumpkin spice? 09:00 No! 09:04 But Jan, candles make your house smell so nice. 09:10 Know what else makes your house smell nice? Cleaning it! 09:22 Maybe you say, candles are romantic, but would you rather have someone who burns for you with the fire of a thousand suns or someone who burns a thousand tea lights he bought at Ikea? 09:36 No thanks, Tyler! 09:39 We're busy. 09:41 Why waste time watching some dingus fiddle with his bick trying to make his creepy bachelor pad look like an R&B video? 09:52 Wanna get us in the mood? Stop talking about the katana swords you got on eBay. Throw on Pony by Genuine and let's hit the sheets with the fancy stuff. 10:09 Professional candle makers are called chandlers. And in the words of the most famous chandler, could candles be any lamor? I don't think so. Thank you. 10:24 Yeah. 10:26 Jan Caruana, everybody. 10:29 Well, we would be hard pressed to find two debaters with two more diametrically opposed styles than Jan and John. 10:40 It's time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating candles, so get yourself in the right flame of mind and try to tea light this audience before it's time to votive. 10:55 No, that was good. 10:57 Thank you. Thank you, Jan. Well, I think that's enough of these puns. 11:03 So be nimble, be quick, and try to candle stick it to your opponent, starting now. 11:12 Can you heat up a can of baked beans over one of those fake LED candles? 11:19 We're working for the CBC. It's a valid question. 11:32 Wait, you're making bean money? Well, I guess the gender wage gap does exist. 11:44 Well, cavemen would have loved pumpkin spice. 11:48 They just didn't have the technology. 11:51 We can't base our whole lives on what cavemen did or didn't do. 11:57 John, I've been on some Tinder dates that would argue otherwise. 12:06 You know, candles used to be made of wax harvested from the head of a whale. Now, just get in there, scooped out the wax from the head of a whale. Now, you just think about that the next time you want to set the mood. 12:19 Wow. 12:21 Well, you know, basically everything used to be made from whale heads. 12:30 That's all we had. 12:38 This country was built on whale heads. 12:48 Now, caromancy predicts the future by reading melted candle wax. And it was first practiced by the druids, along with human sacrifice. So I guess if you love candles, you love human sacrifice. 13:05 Well, I'm not against it. 13:06 OK, that's the bare-knuckle round, everybody. 13:10 That's probably a good place to stop. 13:16 We have never had one end on that note before. Oh, this section of the show has never been named better. It's time now for the firing line. 13:27 In my hand, I have a list of questions on candles brought to you by the most exciting action star named after a candle, John Wick. 13:38 Lit Up Candle Company's list of 10 ways you'll benefit from burning candles includes adding fragrance to your space, supporting prayer or meditation, and what else? 13:49 John? 13:50 The ability to communicate with the dead. 13:58 Fair enough. 14:00 One living point. 14:01 Jan? Letting the other Wiccans know how much disposable income you have. 14:11 Those are both good answers. Ten ways you'll benefit from burning candles includes adding fragrance to your space, supporting prayer or meditation, and creating a calm or romantic ambience. 14:24 Yeah, isn't that nice? Also would have accepted covering up what you leave behind in the bathroom. 14:32 Hubpages.com's list, 50 songs about candles and flames, includes 16 Candles by The Crests, Eternal Flame by The Bangles, and what Peter, Paul, and Mary song? 14:43 Jan. Can I sing it, Steve? Of course. 14:47 Leaving on a cheap train, cause I spent too much on candles again. Oh babe, I'm frickin' broke. 14:59 I like the singing. I like the singing. 15:04 Not the answer we were looking for, though. It's up for grabs, John. Candle the Magic Candle. 15:15 How's that one go again, John? 15:24 The answer, the Peter, Paul and Mary song we were looking for was Light One Candle. Anyone know that one? 15:31 No, that's okay. Thank you for knowing it. 15:35 One Green Planet's website says the wax from old candle ends can be reused to fix squeaky door hinges, seal open wine bottles, and what else? Jan? 15:45 Seal a private letter to the Viscount telling him you no longer wish to be wed. 15:52 Listen to that. 15:53 Listen to that. 15:55 Three points. 15:57 Now you're speaking their language. 16:02 No, the One Green Planet's website says you can use the wax from old candle ends to fix squeaky door hinges, seal open wine bottles, and then melt them down into new candles. 16:14 Feels like it should have been the first one. 16:17 According to jadesessence.com, the top three candle scents that Canadians love are cedarwood, vanilla, and what? John. Curling. 16:31 Curly-scented candles? 16:34 Mmm. 16:38 Jan? Costco hot dogs. 16:41 They're both good answers. 16:45 The actual answer is Christmas spice. We also would have accepted Americans electing a more democratic president. And that's the firing line, everybody. 16:57 All right. We are racing towards our closing arguments in front of our beautiful Centrepoint Theatre audience here in Ottawa. But first, here to tell us that she enjoys thinking about candles as much as she enjoys thinking about her old flames, which is never. Let's hear again from Jan Caruana. 17:18 Thank you. 17:20 In the words of Sir Elton John, it seems to me you lived your life like a candle in the wind, never knowing who to cling to when the rain set in. What? 17:40 Even our best guys can't make candles sound cool. 17:45 Perhaps once, candles reflected the sacred and the divine, a prayer manifested in wax and wick. Now, candles just say, I could not care less about you than this $8.99 sandalwood abomination I picked up at Winner's Auntie Barbara. 18:03 And why? 18:05 Because we've become too cynical for magic? Because we can't take a minute to enjoy the flicker of the flame? No, it's because candles reek, and if you're not careful, they'll burn your house to the ground. Thank you. 18:19 Solid points, Jan. 18:20 This is just a safety argument now. 18:23 Jan Caruana. 18:25 Now, here with the whole ball of wax about his appreciation of candles, it's our ever romantic, John Steinberg. 18:38 So I just did some Googling. 18:42 And turns out, based on my opening, looks like I'm over 300 years old. 18:58 Which explains why I've been feeling a bit off lately. 19:06 But really, it's not about how many candles are on your cake. 19:12 It's about what kind of cake you have under all those candles. 19:18 Yeah. Candles are a symbol of celebration and of mourning in so many different cultures. LEDs can't do all that. 19:30 A jar full of fireflies can't do that. 19:34 I've tried. 19:38 Anyhow, vote Candor. Thank you. 19:45 John Steinberg, everybody. 19:51 All right, audience, it's that magical time when you vote and decide who won this thing. So by applause, who just lit up listening to John make Candle appreciation? Everybody's beeswax, John Steinberg. 20:06 A lot of love there for John, here in Ottawa. 20:09 And who thought that Jan's anti-waxy words were so obvious, it was like taking candle from a baby, Jan Caruana. 20:19 Very close. Very close on both sides. 20:24 But I gotta give this one to John Steinberg, ladies and gentlemen. Up with candles, big hand for John Steinberg and Jan Caruana, everybody. 20:38 You're listening to CBC's The Debaters. Want to be a part of the debating action? For upcoming tour dates, be sure to visit our website at cbc.ca slash the debaters. 20:51 Okay, so there are millions of podcasts, and maybe you're cool to stick with the ones you already know you like. But if you're just a little paranoid about missing out on the best new stuff, we can help. 21:04 Every other Thursday, the Sounds Good newsletter will bring you one must-hear show from CBC Podcasts. And because we're true audio nerds, we'll also tell you about shows that we love that we didn't make. Go to cbc.ca slash soundsgood to subscribe. 21:23 Hey, Ottawa, I just have one question for you. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Listen to that, Canada. They are ready, and this is going to be a good one. This comic thinks that evergreen trees are the least poplar trees, making his debaters debut. It's Toronto's Adam Colley. 21:45 Adam Colley, sharply dressed. Look at this. 21:48 Full suit, tie. 21:51 Finally, some respect on this show. This is the radio, Steve. You're looking good, buddy. Thank you. You're looking good. And this comic believes that the price tag of the latest police taser will stun you. 22:04 It's Montreal's David Pride. Come on out, David. 22:09 Making his way across the stage to my right. 22:16 Your topic debaters is one that's a bit of risky business. 22:20 Tom Cruise. 22:22 Is he the greatest movie star of all time? 22:28 Some of you may not know it, but Tom Cruise spent part of his childhood growing up right here in Ottawa. Did you know that? This is true. 22:37 He lived in the Beacon Hill area and attended Henry Monroe Middle School. 22:48 I hope we got that. I hope we picked that up. Some lady just realized she missed her chance. 22:57 He attended Henry Monroe Middle School, where he was voted most likely to jump up and down on a couch on daytime TV. Seems oddly specific. 23:08 Time now for a debate that will show me the funny. So, whereas he's a Hollywood icon who's renowned worldwide, consistently releases blockbuster films, and even does his own stunts, be it resolved, Tom Cruise is the greatest movie star of all time. Adam, you're arguing for this, please, my friend. You have two minutes. Starting now, Adam Cauley. Thank you. 23:34 Hello! Your mission, Ottawa, should you choose to accept it, is to put aside all of Tom Cruise's weird behavior and accept that he is the greatest movie star of all time. 23:50 Tom's played some of the most memorable roles in movie history. Jack Reacher, Maverick, Jerry Maguire. But we can all agree his greatest performance is attempting to play the role of a normal human man. 24:08 Tom's been a star for four and a half decades. The man's 63 years old and still performs stunts topless. 24:17 I'm 40, and I'll only get into the pool if I can keep my shirt on. 24:23 You see, to be a great movie star, you need confidence. 24:27 Only Tom Cruise could walk around with the swagger of being 6'4", when everyone knows he's 4'11". 24:38 The man has dangled on the outside of an Airbus, but isn't tall enough to ride a roller coaster. 24:51 Tom is a beautiful man with the face of an angel and the teeth of a horse. 24:57 The guy is such a giant star, he's uncancellable. Remember when 20-year-old Ashley Simpson got banned from the music industry because she lip-synced on SNL? Tom Cruise is the face of Scientology, believes humans are immortal beings called Phaetons, called Matt Lauer glib, and shamed Brooke Shields for using antidepressants, but as a society, we collectively said, shut up. Just shut up. 25:26 You had me at hello. 25:31 Now that's a movie star. Thank you. Yeah. 25:35 Adam Crawley. His first opening argument for us. 25:42 Thanks, Adam. Now, here to target Tom with an anti-cruise missile of his own, let's hear from our own leading man, David Pride. 25:56 Thank you. 25:58 So I've never seen a Tom Cruise movie. 26:03 But like a good anti-vaxxer, I decided I wanted to do my own research first. Yeah. 26:15 Here's what I found out. Tom Cruise has never found a lost ark. 26:20 He has never fought nor been a Terminator. He has shrunk exactly zero kids. 26:30 Not only is he not the best movie star, he wasn't even the best Cruise when he was dating Penelope Cruise. 26:44 Cruz fails the minimum standard of being a Hollywood leading man, which is appearing in Ocean's Eleven. 26:54 So, yeah, what has he done? Well, he did give that fiery performance in the Mission Impossible series. I think you all know the one. It went viral. It was when he berated the crew for breaking COVID protocols. 27:08 Did you all see that? He went viral for that. Oh, if only he'd played as convincing a psycho in Collateral. 27:15 I was just kidding before, I have seen Tom Cruise movies, but never for Tom Cruise. I saw A Few Good Men for Jack Nicholson. 27:22 I saw The Mummy for Brendan Fraser. 27:26 Yeah, no, I didn't know it was a remake. Why did they do that? 27:30 And I saw Eyes Wide Shut for the same reason everyone else did. Yeah, Stanley Kubrick's skillful direction of an orgy. 27:45 One good thing that Tom Cruise did, in Rain Man, Tom Cruise made huge strides in helping people accept autism with compassion, tolerance, and understanding, simply by being so obnoxious that moviegoers would accept people anywhere on the spectrum that's far from Tom Cruise. 28:06 Thank you. 28:08 Yeah. 28:09 Now, did he suck in every movie? Well, I guess he was good starring in Interview with the Vampire. Sorry, that's a bad example. 28:20 Yeah, he totally sucked in that movie. 28:24 But just not very convincingly. 28:26 That's it. Thank you. 28:28 David Price. 28:33 It's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether Tom Cruise is the greatest movie star of all time. So, start top gunning for the win. 28:45 And try to really cruisify your opponent. 28:50 If you can use collateral thinking, you'll need to fire up your brain, man. 28:58 Show us you have all the right moves, starting now. 29:05 You talked about the COVID protocol, that famous Tom Cruise clip of him berating the crew, but that's Tom Cruise. That's what he does. He's got the most quotable moments, right? He's like, show me the money. I want the truth and mask up or go join that trucker convoy in Ottawa. 29:26 All classic lines. 29:28 All classic lines. 29:29 I didn't see that last movie. Oh, sorry. 29:33 The Outsiders? I don't know what that was. I just want to start by addressing, I did not make fun of the Scientology thing. That is simply because I recently joined the Church of Scientology. 29:45 So like Tom Cruise, I believe that I should strive for a state of clear by regular e-readings from my auditor of my galvanic skin responses in order to unlock the thetan potential of my past lives as an extraterrestrial from the planet Xenu. 30:03 Okay, and yeah. 30:08 So I'm not here to make Tom Cruise look crazy. I don't know. 30:14 I'm actually disappointed in David for that one. 30:18 But as an Irish Catholic, I will forgive you. 30:21 There you go. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. What would Xenu do? 30:25 Okay. I think we've got enough. That's the bare knuckle round, everybody. 30:31 We're debating whether Tom Cruise is the greatest movie star of all time on The Debaters. 30:35 And it's time now for The Firing Line. In my hand, I have a list of questions brought to you by Tom Cruise's Lactose Intolerance. Not a lot of people know about this. 30:45 Tom Cruise's lactose intolerance. Just one bit of dairy and it's days of thunder. 30:55 The Ottawa Citizen reports that during his days living in Ottawa, Tom Cruise broke his leg for the first time doing what? 31:04 David? Taking snowboarding lessons from Justin Trudeau. 31:12 I like that, two points. Adam Colley. Running the entire length of the city of Ottawa, searching for something fun to do. 31:19 That's good too. Oh, they've turned on you. They've turned on you, Adam. 31:26 Oh my God. 31:26 Yeah, that's the most cohesive I've ever heard in an Ottawa group. 31:31 I bring people together. 31:36 Yeah, during his days living in Ottawa, he broke his leg for the first time doing a flip from a roof. 31:45 That roof is still under construction. 31:51 According to Far Out magazine, Tom Cruise has licenses to fly commercial jets, fighter planes, private aircrafts and helicopters, and drive motorcycles. What else does he have a license to do? 32:04 David. 32:05 He has a license to sell scrap metal from the wreckage of commercial jets, fighter planes, private aircraft, helicopters, and motorcycles. 32:17 That's good. 32:19 Three points. This is one of those rare moments when this answer is actually interesting. 32:28 He has a license to sell real estate. 32:33 True story. I'll be honest. If I show up at a house and Tom Cruise slides down the hallway to Bob Seger, I'm buying that house. 32:44 In Yahoo.com's 2025 article, Why Tom Cruise is Unlike Any Other Movie Star, it says, Tom Cruise is not just Hollywood's most reliable A-lister. He's also what? 32:57 Adam? Pocket-sized. 32:59 That's it. 33:02 That's a good answer. I'll give one official point for that. 33:07 Tom Cruise is not just Hollywood's most reliable A-lister, he's also a marketing machine. 33:13 We also would have accepted an actual vampire. 33:18 In June 2025, the Academy Awards announced that in November, Tom Cruise would receive an honorary Oscar for what? 33:26 Adam. Best Supporting Actor in a Marriage. 33:33 That's good. 33:34 Crowd liked that one. Two and a half points. 33:38 David Pryde. It's for his tireless work raising awareness for Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins. 33:51 That's in my head, thanks. Now I gotta go through the rest of the night with that in my head. 33:56 Tom Cruise will receive an honorary Oscar for the Governor's Award for Extraordinary Distinction in Lifetime Achievement in Cinema. 34:05 Pretty impressive. 34:06 Also an honorary award for most time on film running for no apparent reason. 34:12 And that's the firing line, everybody. 34:17 All right. 34:18 It is almost that magical time when our Centerpoint Theatre audience places their votes. But first, here again to explain why he says, I feel the need, the need to speed away from a Tom Cruise movie. Let's hear again from David Pryde. 34:32 Thank you. So this debate concerns whether or not Tom Cruise is the greatest movie star of all time. However, humans don't inhabit all time. 34:47 Okay, we only know the past. We record the present, but then it becomes the past. The future is unknown, okay? Crowning Tom Cruise the greatest of all time, that puts us in this dystopian world where authorities predict one's likely actions and then respond preemptively, punishing them before that action occurs. 35:12 Yeah, you know the reference, yeah. 35:14 That's right. 35:16 You got it. That's from his sci-fi classic, Cocktail. 35:25 Look, in the future, there won't even be actors, just AI constructions devoid of soul, personality, originality, repeating pre-programmed formulas while presenting manufactured good looks and limitless energy, curated for screen-tested maximum box office consumption. 35:44 Actually, Tom Cruise may just be the greatest movie star of all time. 35:51 My bad. David Pride. David Pride might have just defeated himself mid-closing argument. I have never seen someone debate themself in real time. Thank you, David. 36:07 Here again, with more than a few good mentions about Tom Cruise, is Adam Colley. 36:16 Tom Cruise is the best movie star we will ever have. Tom Cruise can literally make any project successful. Imagine his next movie was set in Ottawa. 36:31 It's too much for them all at once, Adam. 36:34 Well, I'm telling you, if it was, he could truly achieve the impossible. Make Ottawa exciting! 36:42 No, no, no! Picture the stunts! Picture the stunts! Riding his motorcycle along a frozen Rideau Canal, rappelling down the side of Parliament Hill, and when a bomb is about to detonate at the Chateau Laurier, Tom risks it all by doing the most dangerous thing you can in Ottawa. Be in a rush and rely on the O-Train. 37:04 Thank you. Yeah. 37:06 Adam Colley. Interesting. 37:10 Bringing it all around at the end. 37:13 All right, it is up to you to vote, Ottawa, by applause. Who thought that Adam's pro-Tom Cruise points were far and away the best? Adam Cauley. Okay. 37:27 Okay. A lot of love for Adam. And who agreed with David that when it comes to Tom Cruise movies, it's best to keep your eyes wide shut? David Prye. 37:41 Okay. It was a close one. Well fought on either side, but the winner is David Pryde. Tom Cruise is not the best movie actor of all time. Big hand for David Pryde and Adam Colley, everybody. 37:53 Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying to Tom Cruise, if you're listening right now, this wasn't my idea. My producer's orders are cold red. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night. 38:09 The Debaters is created by Richard Seid. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. 38:22 Technical production by James Perella and Pascal Jobin. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Allen Humphries, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Leigh Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Meridian Theatres at Centrepoint in Ottawa. 38:40 For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.